Growth on Purpose

Claire Chandler (00:00):

It's not just enough to hire the rockstar and pay them a whole boatload of money and give them unlimited power and hope that they'll get along with others and play nice and help you fulfill your growth strategy. It really is an orchestration, but what it comes down to is fulfilling four basic needs that all employees have.

Troy Blaser (00:23):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Simply Feedback, the podcast brought to you by LearningBridge. I'm your host, Troy Blaser. It's great to have you along listening with us today, I am excited to introduce our guest today, Claire Chandler, who is the author of a book, Growth on Purpose, and Claire is a seasoned expert in leadership and organizational growth. As the president and founder of Talent Boost, she helps businesses expand sustainably by aligning their purpose, people and processes. Claire, welcome to Simply Feedback. It's great to have you with us today.

Claire Chandler (00:57):

Thanks, Troy. It is so great to be here.

Troy Blaser (00:59):

We'll start with a question that we actually ask all of our guests, and that is, I wonder if you could tell us about a time that somebody gave you feedback, maybe it had an impact on your life or on your career. Is there a story that you could share with us about feedback?

Claire Chandler (01:12):

Absolutely. I've been a business owner slash entrepreneur since 2011, but prior to that, I spent about 20 years in corporate America as a full-time employee, and I had the occasion to participate in an assessment center many years ago now when I was a rising leader. So first of all, if you've, if you've never been through an assessment center, it is very intense. It is a full day. You're, you're basically in a fishbowl with several of your colleagues who are also rising, you know, stars, high potential, et cetera. And you are studied from all angles. You're scrutinized, you, you know, you complete a pile of assessments and you go through a series of simulations, and after that you have a one-on-one feedback session with one of theuh, the, the experts who ran the assessment center mm-hmm . And one of the pieces of feedback I got in that one-on-one download stayed with me because the uh, the expert, very astutely observed something that I had never realized I did.

Claire Chandler (02:13):

He said, when you were in a room with a group and you feel like not everyone is contributing equally or you know, working toward a shared goal, you mentally leave the room. And I, when he said that, I sat back, first of all, 'cause I was astounded that he was able to pick up on that because it wasn't anything I said, it was more body language, it was tone, it was probably a light in my eyes that had gone out. Right. . And, and so that feedback was so astute and very telling, and I've carried that with me to this day because it is a constant reminder that you will always be in a combination of people around you who have different skills, different strengths, different energy level, and different level of commitment. And it is really important for you to control what you can control, which is the level of input and contribution you give to the situation.

Claire Chandler (03:11):

And it's a constant reminder to me to be really intentional about being fully present in the situation at any given time. It was so impactful on me as I continued to ascend the corporate ladder and something that I take with me and my business now.

Troy Blaser (03:30):

How interesting. So the observer was saying that they could see that you would sense that others maybe had checked out of the conversation or the goal or, or whatever was happening, and so you would kind of also check out as well?

Claire Chandler (03:42):

Yeah, it was something around, during the simulations, I think it was more so in observing how I interacted with the other people in the room, and less so how I answered the, the different assessment questionnaires, diagnostics. But it was so interesting to me that he was able to pick up on the fact that I, myself, my energy shifted my my level of engagement through either my tone, my body language, you know, whether I was leaning in or sitting back, et cetera. But it was something that he was trained to pick up on.

Troy Blaser (04:13):

Yeah.

Claire Chandler (04:14):

And something that once he pointed it out to me, I absolutely could see that that's something that I, that I did. And I think often, you know, with feedback like that, as with anything, part of the goal of feedback is to have that person who's the recipient improve, but it starts with raising their level of self-awareness of how they're showing up in the world.

Troy Blaser (04:34):

Yeah. Sometimes we talk here at LearningBridge about we can, we can only see ourselves through the eyes of others. We, we can't see ourselves through our own eyes because they're only looking out, you know, out from us. And so it just took that observer to say, here's what I see when this happens. I can see the change in your body language. And, and that was news to you. Right. But it's also something you could control or be more aware of once it was pointed out to you.

Claire Chandler (04:59):

Absolutely. Yeah. We, I mean, we don't, we don't know what we don't know. Right.

Troy Blaser (05:02):

Yeah.

Claire Chandler (05:03):

And, and as I said with our eyes, we, we can't see ourselves. We always only see a reflection.

Troy Blaser (05:10):

Yeah.

Claire Chandler (05:10):

Whether it's, you know, in a mirror, in a camera lens, or certainly with other people in our world who care enough about our own improvement and our own journey to point out things to us that maybe we just were not aware of and couldn't see in ourselves.

Troy Blaser (05:25):

Yeah, so now I'm curious, going forward, did you, first of all, I guess you kind of talked about it, but you, you made it a point to stay engaged or focused on the goal. Did you find that you were also trying to rally some of those people back into the, to be engaged in the, in the activity?

Claire Chandler (05:44):

I wouldn't say directly, but I think as a byproduct of me making sure that I stayed engaged and did what I could to keep my energy level up it's an amazing thing when you consciously stay present in the moment. And I find that it gets harder and harder. I, I have a lot of coaching clients and we go, you know, we, we do specific work around this concept of being present in the moment because it is harder and harder not to multitask. Which by the way, is a myth. Right? You and I know that multitasking is not actually possible, and yet we, we fool ourselves into you know, into thinking that, that, that is true. That while we are having this conversation and making sure it's highly engaging and informative, that we're also compiling other lists or thinking of other things. And it's, it's just not true. But it's a muscle that we have to develop over time because it's too easy to drift, it's too easy to worry about, "What am I neglecting by being fully present here with you?"

Troy Blaser (06:45):

Yeah. Or getting distracted. Oh, there goes the alert on my phone. I wonder what I need to pay attention to there. Right.?That's just super easy. So, as I was getting ready for our conversation today, I noticed on your LinkedIn profile, you have the title leadership therapist, and I thought, I don't know that I've ever heard that as a title before. Where does that come from? What does that mean for you and in the work that you do?

Claire Chandler (07:06):

Yeah, so full disclosure, I am not a licensed therapist by any Stretch. And I mean, no disrespect to to those who are in the therapeutic field, who I have amazing appreciation for the, the the, the title, which is a little bit tongue in cheek, came out of my my work with my clients. So I specialize, as you said, at the top of the show. I specialize in helping organizations build stronger cultures build more of a high performance type of a culture, but not at the expense of, you know individual wellbeing and all of that sort of thing. And a large part of my work, while it's in group settings, whether I'm facilitating a, a strategy session or a team building event, et cetera, a lot of it is built through one-on-one interactions with different people within the organization, from the top executive through their senior leadership and into their rising, you know, next gen talent.

Claire Chandler (08:01):

And invariably, during these conversations, people seem to always say to me, why does this conversation always feel like a therapy session? And the reason for that, I think, is one, because I'm you know, I've been doing this for a while now. I've been in business--I formed my company in 2013--but I've been out on my own since 2011. Prior to that, I had about 20 years, you know, in, in corporate. I've been in their shoes, I've been where they are. I've been in the thick of the forest that they are trying to navigate their way through. And I kind of create this environment, especially when we're working one-on-one, when the cameras are off, they're not on a stage, they're not trying to rally the troops or stick to a script or some set of talking points that we can get real and we can really relate to each other in terms of the journey that they're on.

Claire Chandler (08:56):

And so it just, you know, it, it, it becomes, there's this moment that happens in those conversations where, you know, my client will, will, will sort of just let down those walls and let down that facade that they have all the answers, that they have it all figured out, and that they're not scared as hell, that they're gonna screw it up. And so when we can kind of get past that wall and really get real, it's when they really start to break through and understand that one, they're more receptive to some feedback about how they might, you know, show up differently, do certain, you know, some things more of some things, less of and really understand that it's not about feigning self-confidence, it's about becoming confident in your own skin, with your own vulnerability and with, you know, the access to the, the people and the talent around you to make a bigger impact in the world.

Troy Blaser (09:46):

Yeah. It's interesting. I, I hadn't ever necessarily thought of this in a corporate setting, but I know from experience that sometimes being a leader can be lonely. Right. You, you can't necessarily, all of your interactions with the, the people that you're trying to lead there's a certain relationship there and, and it means that certain boundaries are in place and you can kind of feel alone. And so I can see why having someone like you to talk to, and they're not trying to be a leader for you, and so it gives them a chance to have a different kind of conversation that probably can feel very therapeutic to, to, like you said, to let down some of those, those walls and, and really talk about things in a different way than they can maybe with the, the people that they're trying to lead.

Claire Chandler (10:32):

A hundred percent. I, I, I think the higher up people ascend in the leadership hierarchy, especially within the corporate environment, it can be incredibly isolating. I have C-level leaders who will confide in me all the time that, you know, they, they do feel less confident than they're projecting to their team. Yeah. But they can't show fear to their team. Yeah. And they also feel like they cannot demonstrate vulnerability in the boardroom. Right. They can't admit to things that they don't know. They have to project that they've got a handle on their role, their function, their team, so that they can contribute equally. But spoiler alert, even the CEOs that I have worked with and spoken with have those same fears in the backs of their, of their minds. Yeah. But it's, you know, there, there is this, there is this general hesitation from admitting to that you know, Brene Brown is brilliant in the space of vulnerability. She works with, you know, really high powered CEOs who behind closed doors will acknowledge that they're, they're scared, right? They're, they're,

Troy Blaser (11:35):

They're humans.

Claire Chandler (11:36):

They're human. And if we let a little bit more of that leak through our own leadership style, that's what builds a following. That's what gets people to follow you, is when they can relate to you and say, wait a minute, he's not just the CEO or she's not just the COO, they're also a human being, and that's something, something that I can relate to.

Troy Blaser (11:54):

Yeah. They, they start to follow you, not because of the title that you hold or you know, the office where you sit, but because of who you are and, and the values that you have and how it in it inspires them to want to follow you as a leader.

Claire Chandler (12:07):

That's right.

Troy Blaser (12:08):

Claire, I can see that our producer, Michael, has appeared and has a question that it sounds like he maybe has some thoughts about something you said earlier in the conversation. Michael, what do you have to share with us?

Michael Crowther (12:20):

Claire? Where is the balance of vulnerability but leading with enough confidence that others are willing to, to follow? I'm thinking about situations... So I volunteer with our search and rescue team. I am an advanced EMT. And in those situations, you show up, and you can't be freaking out. Right? I can't be vulnerable in the sense of inside. I'm going, ah, you know, like, this person's in a bad way. I can't do that for the sake of the person who's in a bad way. And the people around me are, it's, it's just going to cause more havoc. So I was just thinking about that balance of vulnerability. And yet putting on enough confidence that it works.

Claire Chandler (13:01):

Yeah. There is truly a fine line between vulnerability and self-confidence. I think employees initially relate to leaders, and leaders become followable when they can show their human side, when they can acknowledge that they don't have all the answers. Which by the way, us employees already know that. Right. We know that leaders don't have all the answers because, oh, by the way, they're human just like me. I think where you, where you tread that line and you maintain that balance, is to demonstrate enough vulnerability, which comes from self-awareness of what I'm naturally talented at and what are not my areas of expertise and self-confidence that where I lack, I have the presence of mind and enough experience to surround myself not with yes men or women, but with a balanced team that do collectively come up with the right solutions. I do think that leaders, you know, you, you, you share the very real example of, of search and rescue, where the, the leader of the pack does not have the luxury of saying, I've never seen this situation before.

Claire Chandler (14:08):

I'm kind of freaking out right now. Right? In the corporate setting, it's less life and death, but it is certainly mission critical. And so leaders do need to understand that where they have vulnerability, where they have doubts that they don't project them as doubts, they project them as opportunities for other people to come together and to coalesce around conquering a common enemy in search and rescue, that becomes very real. Right. That shared mission, that common enemy that people can rally around, that they can put aside their other petty worries and concerns and, and, and strife. And come together collectively for a mission that is, you know, more, that is bigger than themselves. Right. Right. So, I do think there's a, there is a balancing act, but it is really incumbent upon leaders, one, to, to, to understand what the goal is. Right. What is the, what is the mission? What is it we are trying to accomplish together? And what am I in this leadership role to achieve? And having enough self-awareness to say, these are the things that I can step into because they're natural strengths for me, and this is where I can rally the team around me, because each of them has a design and a purpose that balances out the rest. So balance becomes a really key word here.

Michael Crowther (15:24):

That's Great.

Claire Chandler (15:25):

For sure. And maybe in a search and rescue situation where time is critical, command and control style of leadership still has an important role. Right. But as, as you know, Michael, if you're the leader of your team, you know their skills and their strengths and can assign them quickly to step into areas where they're strongest. Right. And it may be that not in the, in the time critical situation, but it's another time during a training or another kind of, or a debrief or another kind of meeting where some of that vulnerability can leak through to your team members so that they know, oh yeah, I was, I was freaking out in this particular situation, but, and so was Michael A. Little bit. But I, I was able to see how he carried through it and was still able to lead effectively in spite of those feelings of doubt or, or whatever might have been there.

Claire Chandler (16:16):

The leader has to know what the mission is, right? Whether it's in search and rescue or a corporate environment, you have to know what it is that we have assembled to solve or to accomplish. They also have to have enough of an understanding of what the other roles are in that situation or on that team, and be able to delegate effectively. I think delegation, you know, not, not to go down that rabbit hole, but quite honestly is one of the biggest leadership gaps in any company, in any industry. I have seen that time and again, where people struggle with delegation, and it comes from a lack of clarity, lack of clarity on what is the purpose of us coming together in this situation, in this time, in this point of our evolution, and what is it that I have, you know, why have I built the team that I have? What are the different strengths and perspectives and roles that we have put them in or that we can leverage to go and get this mission accomplished? So the leader does not have to have all the answers, but they have to have clarity of purpose, which helps dictate clarity and consistency of message. And they have to understand what are, what are the pieces in that overall team that makes sure that there are no gaps.

Troy Blaser (17:21):

Gaps. Yeah. Alright. I wanted to talk a little bit about your book Growth On Purpose. Can you maybe tell us a little bit about the book and, and is there something from it that you would wanna share with our, our Simply Feedback audience?

Claire Chandler (17:34):

Thank you for opening that door. There's so much I Would love to share.

Troy Blaser (17:36):

There's a lot there, right? It's a whole book, right?

Claire Chandler (17:38):

Well, I'll, I'll sort of narrow it down. So, Growth on Purpose arose through my many years now of, of doing what I do. Not just since I opened the doors of my own company, but even in my corporate experience, I love, and I'm super passionate about all things talent, about helping organizations. First when I was in corporate building from the inside out, and now as an advisor, helping companies from the outside really design and build talent infrastructures that will propel the growth journey, right? Because companies cannot grow without the right talent in place. And so. Growth on Purpose is a sort of a deep dive exploration into the the methodology that I've developed over the years to help organizations to attract, retain, engage, and advance the right talent to fulfill their, their growth strategy. So that's the premise for the book.

Claire Chandler (18:32):

Since you've asked the question, I'd love to share with your audience sort of the, the four building blocks or the four pillars of the methodology.

Troy Blaser (18:39):

Okay. Yeah.

Claire Chandler (18:40):

And really what they boil down to is it's not just enough to hire the rockstar, right? And pay them a whole boatload of money and give them unlimited power and hope that they'll, you know, get along with others and play nice and, you know, and help you fulfill your growth strategy. It really is an orchestration, right? But what it comes down to is fulfilling four basic needs that all employees have. The first one is they need a reason to believe the, the right talent that is looking at your organization from the outside and weighing whether they want to become part of your journey. And even the employees you already have, they need a reason to believe in the mission and the journey that you're on.

Claire Chandler (19:22):

You mentioned values before. They need to feel like what you care about as an organization aligns with and does not conflict with what they personally believe and care about, right? So they need a reason to believe. So that first pillar is around aspiration. It's about designing a truly aspirational mission, purpose, growth on purpose, right? Is the name of the book, name of the methodology but all around attracting the right talent so that they can see themselves being part of your journey. And then they are lined up at the door, you know, eager to work with you. So that's kind of need one pillar one. The second one is they need a place to belong. Gone are the days where employees spend their entire career within one company. They move around, they try things out, they look for jobs that play to their strengths certainly, but also kind of fit in with the rest of the lifestyle that they want to have.

Claire Chandler (20:17):

And really the way that you retain employees for a longer period of time is by helping them to understand that they are not joining just a company, but they're joining a community of people that they can actually enjoy spending time with in roles that play to their strengths, right? That they're naturally talented at, that they can feel good about, you know, at the end of the day, the end of a performance year that they actually did something and it aligned with what they're, what they're good at. And so pillar two is called Awareness, and it's really about awareness of self first. I mentioned earlier, you know, one of the gifts of feedback is to raise self-awareness. It's one of the traits that, that unlocks higher levels of performance, right? Is to be far more self-aware of what we are naturally good at, what we believe, and how we can put ourselves in alignment with you know, those sorts of attributes and those sorts of activities that really play to our, our genius zone.

Claire Chandler (21:12):

The third sort of fundamental foundational need of all employees is they need a space to break stuff. And what I mean by that is most companies are plagued with low engagement, low morale, a lot of infighting, a lot of us versus them. And the way to counteract that is to give people some room to question the status quo, to question, you know, past precedent to, to sort of challenge the notion of, well, we can't do it differently because this is the way it's always been done. The devil we know, you know, there's a reason all of these phrases have come into, come into existence. And so the third pillar of the growth, growth on purpose methodology is called acceleration of trust. And it's really important that leaders understand that trust is not something that they can manufacture. It's not something they can fake, but it is something that if they are not careful, they can destroy in an instant.

Claire Chandler (22:09):

And trust is one of those things that's slow to build and fast to burn, right? And so we have to be, and this comes back to some of what we've already talked about, leaders have to acknowledge that they're human first. They have to acknowledge that they don't have all the answers, and they have to look at the team around them and be vulnerable enough and human enough first that people want to support their success and the success of their colleagues. So it's really important that you get that pillar right.

Claire Chandler (22:34):

And the fourth and final pillar really speaks to the employee need for a future that they can buy into and build. Too often I think, you know, I, I mean I talk to organizations all the time, and one of the things that they, they sort of talk about is not only are they experiencing high turnover because maybe they're not hiring the right people in the first place, or if they are, they're not utilizing them to their fullest ability.

Claire Chandler (22:59):

They're also not bringing them along the journey. They're not, you know, when they're finding that there are holes in their talent pipeline, they don't have people ready to step up when they lose a critical position holder, or they have to hold back promoting one of their high performers because there is not somebody who can take their place and, "Oh, we can't create a hole. You're too valuable in the role that you're in." And all of this is a continuum. And so it's really important that organizations implement this fourth pillar, which is called Alignment, and it's alignment on what matters. Leaders have a, a duty and obligation and honestly a privilege to make really powerful connections for their talent between what it is that they do, what it is that they believe, what it is, you know, that you are paying them to occupy in terms of a role and a function and, and, you know, critical responsibilities and why that matters to the shared mission. If employees can't see themselves reaping the benefits of an organization, fulfilling its mission, achieving its vision, demonstrating its value, and achieving its growth strategy, they're gonna check out, they're gonna do just enough not to get fired, not enough to, you know, attract negative attention. And you're never going to achieve your growth journey. And so organizations that implement those four pillars in the right sequence with the right talent, and do it in a way that fulfills those four fundamental needs, can grow beyond their wildest dreams.

Troy Blaser (24:26):

Thank you. First of all, thank you for kind of walking through those. I think it's a really useful framework, a useful way to break it down. I noted something that you said earlier in our conversation. You talked about the idea of helping a company, helping an organization to grow and, and to fulfill their goals, but not at the expense of the individual. And I think the, the four pillars that you've outlined really work well to achieve that, right? When you think of maybe the stereotypical law firm where an associate comes in and works 80 hours, 90 hours a week and, and eventually burns themselves out with that idea of advancing the firm, that's not what we're after. That's not what we're talking about, right? We're talking about how can we make the organization grow, improve, reach, its goals, and at the same time allowing those individuals to flourish and feel passionate about what they're doing and not like they have to just burn themselves out for the good of the company.

Claire Chandler (25:24):

Yeah. The reality is that the, the average tenure of an employee has shortened, right. Has decreased. You talk about the, the CEO level. The average tenure is about three to five years, depending on the organization, the industry, et cetera. Most senior leaders as well executive leaders, middle managers very few people are staying, as I said before, with the same company in the same role for, you know, for decades. You don't have the Jack Welsh generation anymore where you have a CEO of a company for decades. And employees, even at the individual contributor level, don't necessarily stay within an organization for very long. My last corporate employment, I was with that company for about 15 years, which in, so it was an environmental utility industry. So, you know, 10 years uh 20, 40 years was not unheard of. But what kept it fresh for me was I kept moving around.

Claire Chandler (26:23):

I had the opportunity to, to change jobs multiple times. You know, it's, it's funny because I, I always said to my HR colleagues, I would never work in HR. I could never do what they do. It seems like a thankless job. You get people, you know, at their most vulnerable and their weakest, and, you know, whether it's because they're having employee drama or health issues or what have you, you, it's a very challenging space. And then I spent the last several years in my, in my corporate experience within HR, because there was an opportunity to get involved in employee development, career counseling and that that, you know, eventually took off into all things talent, and it unlocked what I was passionate about. But employees in general don't stay in the same company, certainly not in the same role for years on end anymore.

Claire Chandler (27:09):

And so for organizations, first of all, they have to acknowledge that. They have to understand that the tenure may have decreased, you know, over the more recent generations. But it's not about locking people into a long-term commitment because they just won't. It's about making the most of their time in your organization and preparing them for what is next for them. And so it really flips the notion of a company that has a revolving door of talent to being a company that cultivates and creates an environment where the right talent can come in, they can do their best work, they can make an impact, they can break through and be creative. They can see a, a connection to the strategy and the mission and the vision that the organization is trying to achieve. And they can move on with a positive experience that they're gonna talk to other people about.

Claire Chandler (27:59):

Which in turn, as we know, employee referrals are the number one source of, of the right talent, right? So it's gonna feed that front door in a much higher quality level if we treat the talent that we have for however long we have them in a way where we, I don't wanna say drain the life out of them, but squeeze out and leverage as much of their talent and their passion and their energy as they're willing to give for as long as they're willing to give it in ways that lift them up, right. That don't, don't burn them out.

Troy Blaser (28:29):

And and you said it a second ago too, also in ways that set them up for whatever's next for them.

Claire Chandler (28:35):

That's right.

Troy Blaser (28:36):

You know, I, I come to an organization, the organization knows that I'm not going to be there for a decade. I'm gonna be there for three to five years, or whatever it might be. And there's attention paid to not only how can I get the passion from this employee, but how can I help that employee be ready for the thing that comes next, right? And, and like you said, that creates a positive referral that increases the quality of the people coming through our front door. And so I think that makes for wonderful place to work and to want to be, I wonder how feedback plays a role in, in driving purposeful growth?

Claire Chandler (29:12):

I do think at the end of the day, everyone wants to do their best work. They, they don't wanna feel like they've wasted a day, a week, a year doing something that is just monotonous. Unfortunately, we're at a point, and I think I just saw a statistic yesterday from, from Gallup, that employee engagement in the US is, is at an all time low or is sharply declining. And that's something we need to pay attention to and understand, not just the metric of, you know, sort of that lagging indicator, but understand why. What is it in those four fundamental needs that I listed earlier that people feel like they're not getting? And so, you know, like, again, I think it comes back to the obligation and the privilege that leaders have to make stronger connections. It's not enough to just build a recruiting machine that brings in a whole bunch of people through the front end, knowing that you've gotta account for, you know, high attrition and high turnover and low engagement.

Claire Chandler (30:07):

It's like pouring into the top of the funnel and finding that at the bottom, it's a siv, it's not a, you know, it's not a catch base. Um so it's really important for, for leaders, you know, I, I I always say leaders have the biggest impact on, on the culture of an organization. They're the ones who shape culture and culture determines your success. So you either feed culture through your leadership through the level to which they demonstrate vulnerability, the level to which they speak with conviction about this journey that we're all on. It's interesting, and it always astounds me how few leaders ask themselves on a regular basis what it is that they are in that leadership role to accomplish. I ask people that all the time, and it's not meant to be a gotcha question, but it kind of turns into one because when I, you know, when I ask a leader at any level in an organization.

Claire Chandler (30:58):

Why does your role exist, and why are you the one specifically in it? What are you getting out of it? They all kind of look at me initially, you know, with a start, and they go, I haven't thought about that in a long time. Probably not since the, the moment they made the decision to take that role.

Troy Blaser (31:14):

Yeah. Yeah.

Claire Chandler (31:15):

And it's what's lacking, right? Because I do think that many executives have become salespeople. And what I mean by that is they, they lock themselves in a room. They, you know, they pay some consultant to help them identify and map out what their strategy is going to be for the next five, you know, plus years. And then they come out and they sort of have these tablets that come down from the mountaintop and say, this is our brilliant growth strategy, get behind it. And the problem is, because they've done that in the vacuum, the employees who actually have to have boots on the ground, shoulder to the wheel, pick your analogy and fulfill the growth strategy, are not inclined to do so.

Claire Chandler (31:56):

They don't have ownership, they don't see a connection, they don't feel emotionally connected to what it is that you're trying to achieve. And a lot of executive leaders, I'm not even gonna say most, but a lot of them make the mistake that once they have paid some consultant to help them map out the strategy, that all they need to do is go and sell it. That they have to go, you know, do road shows and town halls and all this sort of trendy thing. And just, you know, talk the employees into why this is gonna be good for the company. And what they need to do instead--and listen, I get it. You, you can't involve the entire workforce in the development of your strategy. There are certain things that are trade secrets. There are certain things that only a, you know, a small conclave of leaders can be involved in, and I get that--

Claire Chandler (32:44):

But if the executive leaders don't go out from those meetings and help make connections with people, and first of all, buy into it themselves, right? It's like, gone are the days where you can emerge from the boardroom or the executive, you know, management room and say, I didn't agree with the direction that we set on, but I'm a good soldier and I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna use the talking points and I'm going to toe the party line. That doesn't work anymore. Employees need more than that. They need to feel like you as their leader, totally buy into and believe in the direction we're going as a company. Because if you don't believe it, you can't sell it. And so there's this, this shift that leaders have to embrace, which is to go from trying to convince employees to get on board or get out.

Claire Chandler (33:32):

And I've, I've actually heard employers, you know, executive leaders say that. You know, if, iif this isn't something you can get on board with, there are other, you know, organizations that will have you. And that's true. But shifting from going out and trying to convince people to get on board and actually speaking from a place of conviction, because they truly believe as executive leaders who have the biggest impact on culture, that the direction that we're going, the strategy, the outcomes over the next five plus years and the trajectory that we have to follow to get there are things that they personally believe in. Because, again, we're not gonna follow people that we can't relate to. Right? We, we don't do the command and control type of leadership anymore. People don't respond to that, and they no longer are required to. And so leaders need to choose a different way.

Troy Blaser (34:23):

I like that. I like that idea of making those connections, coming at it with authenticity to say, you know, I'm all in. 'cause People can sense when it, when they're, when that conviction isn't there, they can kind of see through it. Claire, at the, at the beginning of our conversation, you told us a story about receiving some feedback. I always love stories around feedback, and I know in the beginning of your book, there's a, a fantastic story about some feedback that you received. Can you share that story with us?

Claire Chandler (34:53):

Yeah. So I, I don't know if I would call it fantastic, but I do think it was, it was quite emblematic, right? So this was back in my corporate days, probably about two years before I ultimately left. I was a, a VP of human resources by then. And I was traveling, I don't know, three weeks out of every four. And on one of the weeks that I was in our corporate headquarters, I was walking back toward my office, and my boss stopped me in the hall, and he said, "You need to tone down your walk." And I, you know, was so eloquent, and I'm like what? Like, what? And

Troy Blaser (35:27):

Just out in the blue.

Claire Chandler (35:28):

Yeah. Yeah. Like, just, you know, and , because you know, your walk, it's, it's too bouncy, it's too happy. And, and people are gonna, you know, start to think you're up to something like, like, you know, something they don't . And, you know, he was, people say to me, like, how, why did you not quit? Like, right then? And I'm like, honestly, it was so it was kind of typical, quite honestly, of this sort of, you know, fatherly advice that this particular executive would impart upon me with all of his years of, of wisdom. And, you know, I thanked him for the feedback like, you really should. 'cause That all feedback is a gift. And I returned to my, my office and, and, you know, spoiler alert, I, I didn't, I didn't alter my walk. I mean, I, I happened to have a, a spring in my step.

Claire Chandler (36:15):

I happen to have a, you know, a bounce to my step. And it's interesting because Michael had sort of alluded to this, you know, this notion of projecting self-confidence, even when you, you know, you maybe internally you're freaking out or you don't feel like you have all the answers. There are days I don't feel like having a bounce in my step. There are days when I don't have all the answers. In fact, I have way more questions and more doubts and more fear than I have any sort of clarity. But my walk doesn't change. You're never gonna see me like trudging through a hallway like. Eeyore. Right? You're never gonna see me dragging, you know, the, the, my mindset behind me. Like, woe is me. Because for me, that walk gives me energy. And in those, those times when I'm feeling a little swept under or a little bit intimidated or out of my depth, it's the walk that kind of propels me forward.

Claire Chandler (37:07):

I do believe that it, it really doesn't matter the size of the step that you take, as long as it's in a forward direction. And so, for me, you know, I, I , so kind of coming back to that story, I didn't leave right then because I don't think I recognized in the moment how emblematic that bit of feedback was. But what I came to understand in hindsight was it was emblematic of leaders who don't get it, of leaders who don't truly embrace their role in impacting the culture that they expect from other people. And so, you know, and this is a company like 99% of companies on the planet that advertise for people to come in with an entrepreneurial spirit, right? We want people who bring, you know, the, the latest trend is to say, bring your full authentic self to, to work. And the first time you color outside the lines, the first time your walk is too bouncy. You know, and, and, you know, might be suggesting that you've got an answer that other people don't. They mandate conformity rather than create that environment, you know, which is why one of the pillars in, in my book is, is around, you know, feeding this need for employees to break stuff, giving them the space to break out of, you know, the corporate box. Not in a disrespectful or overly disruptive way, but in a way that does inject some energy into the status quo.

Troy Blaser (38:27):

Yeah. I, I was just thinking about that. You know, if you, if you were to give advice to that leader, your boss, or to other leaders, if you were to give them advice around how to avoid making that mistake that your boss made in giving you that feedback, it sounds like something you would tell them and feel free to add on, is to celebrate the, the individuality. Celebrate that entrepreneurial spirit that you are advertising for in your hiring.

Claire Chandler (38:54):

Yeah, this particular person who gave me the feedback was not terribly receptive to feedback. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's a little bit, you know, difficult. However, there are other people who unwittingly give feedback that is either conflicting with, with sort of the brand promise of the organization, whether it's entrepreneurial spirit, bringing your authentic self to work. Here's a place where you can be innovative, whatever it might be. I, I think the biggest thing for me, the biggest lesson as a leader that I tell all of my coaching clients, I tell all, all organizations, is you need to contextualize your feedback. It's really important, as I said earlier, that leaders are self-aware. It's really important that they remind themselves why they're in their leadership role to begin with. And it's really important for them to be dialed in and bought into the mission of the organization so that they can speak with conviction versus trying to convince other people to get on board or to, or to get out.

Claire Chandler (39:52):

But it's also exceptionally important to tell people why, back in my corporate days when I had an office and I had a big desktop and a big, you know, monitor, I had this post-it note above my line of sight, and it said, tell them why. And it was a daily reminder for me that when I was delegating something, when I was sharing information, when I was meeting with my team, or meeting individually with, you know, different people in the organization that I didn't wanna take for granted that a direction that I gave or a bit of information that I shared was as understood by the recipient as it was from the sender. Right? It takes 10 extra seconds to contextualize for people why it is that you are inviting them to complete something, do something differently. This is especially important with feedback, and it's particularly important when that feedback is constructive.

Claire Chandler (40:45):

Because if you're dialed in on your purpose, your mission, you have a set of values that you believe in personally, and that you see how they are going to help propel your growth journey, then when you give feedback, you can put it into the context of this is how doing things differently or doing more of this and less of that will actually help you have a more visible, tangible impact on the growth journey that we're on, right? It will make that stronger connection for leaders. So I cannot emphasize enough the skill to have in your hip pocket at all times when you're giving feedback, when you're giving direction, when you're making a course correction to tell them "why."

Troy Blaser (41:29):

I love that. That's fantastic. Okay. And I was gonna say, if people want to know more or if they want to connect with you, what are the best ways to get in touch with you?

Claire Chandler (41:38):

Find me on LinkedIn, email me at claire at talentboost.net. Or you can check out my company website, which is talentboost.net. Just the other thing, just as a as a final sendoff, I would love for your audience to go check out the book. They can go to growthonpurpose.com. There is a link to the book, which they can buy on Amazon, or there's also a link to a Growth on Purpose Scorecard. It's completely free. It takes about five minutes to complete, and it will give you not only a score overall for growth on purpose, but in those four individual pillars I talked about. But it will give y ou a pretty detailed report with customized recommendations of how you can improve your score across all four pillars.

Troy Blaser (42:20):

Awesome. Claire, thank you so much for joining us today. I've really enjoyed our conversation. It's been great to talk about these different topics with you. Thank you.

Claire Chandler (42:28):

Thanks, Troy. It's been a pleasure.